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December 1998
Each month we bring you a selection of articles from the current and past issues of BOXING MONTHLY. To buy the magazine, see our subscription or back issues pages, or use our world distribution map to find a news-stand copy. Why not use our Interactive Forum to express your own boxing comments and opinions!
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PRESENTING THE BIG ONE
Mike Tinley is like the cat who's got the cream and understandably so - after less than two years of operation, Tinley's company, America Presents, will be promoting the first two bouts of Mike Tyson's latest comeback. So who is he? STEVE FARHOOD pins him down for a Q&A |
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STAR-STUDDED STABLE: Tyson aside, Tinley (left) and America Presents can also boast
that they have David Reid (right), the USA's only Gold Medal winner from the Atlanta
Olympics
- Get Big Pic With Mike Tyson having separated himself from Don King via $100 million lawsuit,
boxing's promoters eagerly queued up, hoping to secure the comebacking heavyweight's
signature. To the surprise of many, Tyson selected America Presents, which has been
promoting cards for all of 20 months. The CEO of the Denver-based company is 37-year-old
Mat Tinley, who has made remarkably long strides in a short time. Tinley, who is married with three children, is the great nephew of cable television
pioneer and former boxing manager Bill Daniels. A graduate of the University of Nebraska
and Harvard School of Business, Tinley, 37, began his professional career working for
Prime Ticket Network, which had been started by Daniels and Dr Jerry Buss, the owner of
the Great Western Forum and the Los Angeles Lakers. When Daniels sold Prime Ticket to
Liberty Media, Tinley stayed aboard and eventually launched Prime International, a
collection of regional sports networks. In 1996, the company was valued at $150 million. Tinley's trip down Bash Boulevard began in early 1993 with the management of Wayne
McCullough. Three years later, he teamed with veteran promoter and manager Dan Goossen and
formed America Presents. That Tinley would become a serious force was established when
America Presents netted 1996 Olympic gold medalist David Reid with a reported seven-figure
signing bonus. At various points since, Tinley and Goossen added Bernard Hopkins, Miguel
Angel Gonzalez, Robert Garcia, Luisito Espinosa, Robert McCracken, Gabe and Rafael Ruelas,
Azumah Nelson, Michael Nunn, Goyo and Adan Vargas, William Guthrie, and Tracy Patterson.
In addition, several heavyweights from the Class of '96 were signed, including Lawrence
Clay-Bey, Duncan Dokiwari, Wolfgramm, Monte Barrett, and Lance Whitaker. In November, Boxing Monthly conducted a 90-minute interview with Tinley. The promoter's
exuberance was understandable; in less than a week, Tinley was scheduled to host the press
conference announcing Tyson's comeback bout. BM: You became a fight fan as a child, when your great uncle, Bill Daniels, brought you
to a Ron Lyle fight in Denver. But the start of your professional involvement in boxing is
an interesting story. MT: I was at the first Bowe-Holyfield fight in Las Vegas with [the Irish band U2's]
Bono and a couple of other friends, and afterward we went for pizza. Bono was talking
about how things hadn't turned out right for Barry McGuigan, and he said that they
probably wouldn't turn out right for this new kid from the [1992] Olympics, Wayne
McCullough, either. He told me I should manage this kid. I was working in the TV business,
running what I knew, but I thought about it. I knew I loved boxing, so I went to the head
of Liberty Media, Peter Barton, and he said: "It sounds like a stupid idea. Go
ahead." McGuigan arranged a meeting. I told Wayne about my ideas, and he said yes. He
hadn't fought as a pro yet, and about 72 hours later, Wayne was in Los Angeles, in his pro
debut on the USA Network. Coincidentally, that show was promoted by Dan Goossen, and the
matchmaker was Tom Brown [who now works in the same capacity for America Presents]. So in
many ways, I can blame Bono and Barry McGuigan for my involvement. BM: America Presents advertises itself as "a boxing promotional company designed
for the 21st century". What does that mean? MT: Here's what America Presents is about: Ninety-five percent of the public is turned
off on boxing because of some of the shenanigans a couple of people have pulled. America
Presents is not about that. We make sure the fighters are treated with respect, that they
get paid what they're supposed to be paid. We run the company as a proper business.
There's still a rogue element in boxing, and that's kept sponsors away. It's not the
[television] ratings. Sponsors don't want to associate themselves with something that's
not right. BM: I might argue that the rogue element is part of boxing's appeal, part of what makes
it different from other professional sports. MT: No, I don't think that's applicable at all. I'm not talking about boxers, I'm
talking about bad judging, ratings, one promoter having all the fighters. Look at Mike
Tyson. It can happen to the biggest act in show business. That's gotta stop. One hundred
different organisations, each with a title- it's not good. You don't have six Super Bowl
champs. BM: Isn't it true that Tyson is associated with a lot that is negative? MT: I think people who know Mike Tyson and have seen him perform know that he gives his
absolute best. One reason he's the most popular athlete is his kill-or-be-killed attitude.
In all his time, he's had, what, two fouls in 22 years? The reason people spend $50 to see
him [on pay-per-view] is they're going to get value for their money. As far as out of the ring, Mike Tyson, for whatever he's been accused of, has paid his
debt. I've always felt Mike got the wrong end of the stick, that he got more punishment
than he deserved. BM: What does it say about America Presents, and what does it say about boxing, that
after less than three years in the business, your company is promoting the biggest name in
the sport? MT: One thing it says is we're treating fighters properly, and when fighters deal with
America Presents, they're going to be treated well. Doing business properly pays off. The
reason Mike Tyson is with America Presents is Mike Tyson. Mike is making his own
decisions, and he's here because he wants to be. He's been taken advantage of so
thoroughly. BM: So your reputation sold him on you guys? MT: Absolutely. It's why fighters like us. BM: Do you feel other top promoters don't do proper business? MT: There are a lot of good people in boxing. Most people - 98% of them - are good
people with a true passion for the sport. That's the shame of it. There are a few people
at the top who've had control of the sport. Promoters, organisations - everyone knows who
they are. The difference is America Presents has the muscle to make a difference. We're
the first people to stand up to the bullies. BM: Don't you have to play the game like everyone else? For instance, playing the game
to get your fighters rated. MT: We push hard for our fighters, but everything we do is above board. There's no
dirty pool here. BM: When you say you have the muscle to make a difference, is that another way of
saying you have the money? MT: It's a lot more than money. Money is essential; you can't succeed in the business
without it. But running a proper business . . . It's no different for Microsoft, IBM, the
Fox Network, Time Warner, HBO. You can have all the money in the world, but if you don't
make the right business decisions, all you're going to get is tax losses. BM: I'm sure it's a long story, but how did you come to an agreement to promote Tyson? MT: Mike is making his own decisions. And the people around him are comfortable with
us, too. It simply came down to negotiating a proper contract. BM: I presume there was a lot of competition. MT: I'm sure. But that was never a concern, and it never is. We knew the job we could
do on the team of Mike Tyson. Mike and Shelly [Finkel, Tyson's adviser], and Showtime have
seen us work and knew our strengths. It wasn't a case of us having to talk our way into
the situation. In Hollywood terms, Mike Tyson is the star. We're here to be supporting
cast members. BM: It's been reported that the promotional agreement precludes America Presents from
sharing in the pay-per-view revenues, the foreign sales, or the site revenues. What is the
extent, then, of your involvement? MT: Number one, I couldn't report it to you if I wanted because of confidentiality
clauses. But [even without confidentiality clauses] I wouldn't disclose that because I
don't think it's anyone's business. I will say this: Most of the things I've read have
been inaccurate, and in some cases, wildly inaccurate. For instance, it's been reported
that Fox was backing us, and that's inaccurate. I'll just say this: Don't believe anything
you read. BM: Is it accurate that part of the promotional agreement was a $3 million loan to help
Tyson with his tax problems? MT: I'm not going to discuss any business terms. That's Mike's business. BM: But America Presents will be the sole promoter, correct? MT: Yes. BM: It's been widely reported that Frans Botha will be the opposition in Tyson's
comeback bout. Is that accurate? MT: It looks that way. But until everything is signed, sealed, and delivered, it's not
done. There's no deal until everyone signs. BM: Do you think Tyson really wants to fight again or his return more the result of his
financial problems? MT: He wants to fight. I think he has a burning desire, as much as he ever did. It's
what he does, and does well, and he's the best in the world at it. His desire is huge. I
think he's gonna destroy people. He goes in to win, and his car is in full throttle. I
think he's the hungriest athlete in the world to do well and give his best performance.
Mike Tyson is fighting because he loves to fight, just like you do what you do because you
love to write. BM: How do you explain that at this point, and with all that's happened, Tyson is still
the biggest attraction in boxing? MT: I think everyone has a different opinion. I think he's highly important all over
the world. He's the biggest not only in America, but in Great Britain, Australia, Japan. I
think what people see is a genuine person who always gives a compelling performance.
People appreciate that. He's simple; there's not a lot of hype. He doesn't have to hype
himself. Like most people in the world, he's out to do a job. Deep down in all of us,
there's a great admiration for him. He doesn't hold back. BM: Do you agree that the American public likes nothing more than to rip down a
celebrity, then support him if he can build himself back up? MT: I don't personally buy that. I think deep down, the public admires Mike Tyson. He
gives a genuine, passionate performance. That's why people love Bruce Springsteen. When he
leaves the stage, you know he gave everything he had. There are two words to describe
Mike's performance: pure and genuine. Even the most pristine suburban mothers want to
watch Mike Tyson. They know he's gonna make excitement. BM: Are you concerned with how Mike will work with the media? It's been a somewhat
strained relationship in the past. MT: From what I've seen of Mike, he's always been very respectable [with the media].
But he's not one to be anyone's whipping boy. When people respect him and give him
respect, he gives it back. It's not a concern at all. You know, it's not easy for anyone
to step out of an apartment complex and have the video rolling, for people to make their
livings writing about you every day. Mike is such a genuine warrior, he'd like to go back
to the old days where all you have to do is show up to fight and the best man wins. BM: How do you see the Tyson saga ultimately playing itself out? MT: I think he'll re-establish himself as one of the greatest heavyweights ever.
Period. I see a guy who's stayed in shape, who wants to prove he's the best. To me, one of
the most important words in the language is faith. I have tremendous faith that Mike Tyson
is going to go out there and do a tremendous job. I think he's a very strong person. To go
through what he's gone though in his childhood and since, to have people not acting in
your best interest, and to still be strong... BM: Last year, you held a press conference announcing that Bill Daniels was going to
contribute financial support to America Presents. Has that allowed you to continue on your
desired path? MT: Any time you add someone like Bill Daniels, it triple-charges the equation. Would
we be where we are today without his enthusiasm? No. He's been a tremendous supporter of
ours in more ways than one. He has very good ideas and is one of the smartest people
you'll meet. Money is the easiest thing to get. Imagination is far more difficult. And the
job Dan Goossen is doing - he's a tremendous partner to have. Let's face it, everyone was
trying to extinguish us at the beginning. Lawsuits. Spreading rumors. Undercutting our TV
relationships. People trying to split Dan and me. Tactics that usually work in this
business. But it only made America Presents stronger, and I'm thankful. America Presents
is really the first company to run right to the top. We're like Mike Tyson in that sense:
Everyone tried to beat us down. BM: Given the money you've spent on fighters like David Reid and Bernard Hopkins,
America Presents must still be in the red. MT: One of the luxuries of being a privately owned company is you don't have to
disclose your finances. America Presents is doing quite well, thank you. BM: My criticism of America Presents is that while you've matched David Reid
aggressively from the start, many of your shows feature heavyweight bouts that are
embarrassing mismatches. MT: My response is that we're doing 20 shows a year with Fox, and we have an exclusive
deal with Telemundo [a Spanish-language network]. At the HBO level, we had the fight of
the year in 1997 with Zaragoza-McCullough. On balance, I'd say we put on the best shows in
the business. When you put on as many shows as we do, you're gonna have some clinkers,
sure. But we put our guys against each other, and our guys come to fight. David [Reid] has
been in remarkably tough. Clay-Bey is now fighting Alex Stewart in his 10th pro fight, and
Stewart just beat Ezra Sellers. I'll compare our Fox shows to any on cable. Did you see
the Sellers-Stewart fight? Look at the way we've matched McCullough. He could've fought
Erik Morales, but instead we took Hamed, which was a tougher fight. We put Raf [Ruelas] in
with Kostya Tszyu and it didn't work out. We put Gabe [Ruelas] in with John Brown and it
didn't work out. Heavyweights are a different business; one punch can change everything.
But once a guy is ready to go, we take the reigns off him. BM: How would you analyse David Reid's progress thus far? MT: I'm not really a hype guy, but David Reid is the most talented fighter I've ever
seen. He can punch with both hands, he's got good boxing skills, he's good defensively,
he's got a good chin, and he's got an unquenchable desire to be the best. He's the whole
package. He's Sugar Ray Leonard with Thomas Hearns's one-punch power and Marvin Hagler's
strength. We've matched him tough. Right now we're taking him through Harvard so when he's
ready to fight for the title, there are no surprises. The only thing stopping him from
fighting anyone from 147 to 160 pounds is experience. A butler once said to Winston
Churchill: "You're inebriated." Churchill said: "In the morning I'll be
sober, but you'll still be ugly." The only thing David Reid needs is experience. He's
one of the best investments I've made in my whole life. I just wish there was a clone
machine. BM: From this point forward, at what pace will Reid be moved? MT: We're not doing anything to anyone's timetable with David. I really don't see the
rush. When you're young, you have time. A self-imposed timetable can be detrimental. David
had such an extensive amateur career fighting abroad, in front of hostile crowds, and that
replaces a lot of the early pro experience. And then there was the [1996] Olympics, with
the world press there. When you get to a world title fight, it's not a problem. The chance
of stage fright is much less. You bring every fighter along differently. Early on you have
to be very skillful. BM: Reid is a junior middleweight, and his division has a natural opponent like his
Olympic teammate, Fernando Vargas. And soon enough, there'll be superfight opposition like
Oscar De La Hoya, Felix Trinidad, and Ike Quartey. But it's the opposite situation for
Bernard Hopkins. He's the best middleweight in the world, but there's no one for him to
fight. What can you do about it? MT: We can do plenty. Bernard has repeatedly said he'll go to 168 pounds and fight Roy
Jones. [Jones outpointed Hopkins at middleweight in 1993.] BM: Jones' reaction to that has been that if Hopkins wants a date at 168, he should
fight at that weight and win a title. MT: My reaction to that is two words: Otis Grant. We'll fight [IBF light heavyweight
champion] Reggie Johnson at catchweight. Bernard is one of the 10 best fighters in the
world. It's incumbent on the TV networks with the money to force these fights. BM: Before we began this interview, you told me Rafael and Gabe Ruelas have retired.
What can you do if a fighter who is clearly past his prime wants to go on? MT: I'm very proud of Raf and Gabe. When you see a fighter who's past it, it's good to
be the arbiter of truth. I told Merqui Sosa after his fight with Ray Berry that I didn't
want him to fight anymore and he got mad. I have great admiration for Shelly Finkel, who
told Meldrick Taylor to call it a day. If [Taylor] had heeded the advice, he'd be better
off today. BM: You've addressed the future of America Presents. What about the future of boxing as
a whole? MT: I'm very upbeat on it. Very upbeat. There's new blood in the business and it may be
invigorating it. There are young, energetic people at all levels. I'm very happy about the
trend I see: Fighters and promoters and TV networks-everyone benefits from fighting big
fights. [Senator] John McCain's involvement-he's a national hero and he cares enough about
boxing to try and clean it up. The sanctioning bodies, I think there's movement there. I
was very encouraged by [WBC President] Jose Sulaiman's speech in South Africa [at the
recent WBC convention], in which he said the sanctioning bodies should be condensed.
Pay-per-view numbers have never been higher and the international market is strong. I see
HBO starting a new series ["Boxing After Dark"] and doing very well with it. And
I think fighters are getting smarter. Despite the damage that's been done, the mudslide of
goodwill will bury those people. The people who have operated unscrupulously, it's coming
back to haunt them. I think from here it's just up. One of the things I learned from Bill
Daniels is that good guys win. BM: Coming out of the Harvard School of Business and a top job in television, you had
options. But you chose boxing. Was it a good choice? And are you now a hopeless lifer? MT: It was a good choice. Unfortunately, I have an incurable disease called boxing. But
it's good. I remember a poem I learned in school once-"Whether you're a trash man or
a gardener or the President of the United States, do something well." We have two
slogans here: "Keep your integrity" and "Follow your instincts."
Starting the company hasn't been easy, but I see results every day. I'm lucky; I'm living
a dream. BM: Does promoting Mike Tyson validate your commitment to boxing and America Presents? MT: It's very gratifying to be working with Mike Tyson. In any profession, you want to
work at the highest level, and Mike Tyson is the highest level. The second thing is I
believe in Mike Tyson and I think we can make a real difference. That gives me great
satisfaction. |
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